I have reread my comment above and I’m concerned that I come of a little as a fascist about this issue or that I was annoyed at Nick’s post BIG SORRY because that wasn’t my intention. The problem with the inter-web is that you lose a lot of the ability to express your “non-verbals” “verbally”.

I’m VERY glad that Nick brought this topic out for discussion as Gastric Banding is often thrown about as a viable weightloss option.

I should clarify for the readers of this blog that I am also a fatty, possibly a death fatty, I don’t know because I honestly don’t have a clue what I weigh or what my BMI is.

I have had every eating-disorder you can name and in the past have exercised myself to the point of permanent injury in order to stay skinny (I was a size 8 in my 20s, but still felt ENORMOUS)

I do have huge issues (pun-intended) with doctors who offer gastric banding to patients who haven’t undergone extensive therapy for food-related issues.

I understand that there are people out there who are death-fat while munching of healthy salads, no sugar and run 10 kilometers a day, and I had a flatmate who was a size 6 and ate so much food everyday to stay keep her weight up that it was staggering. She wasn’t bulimic. How do I know for sure? Because I was at that time, I was a size 16 and vomiting up much of what I ate during the day. We shared a bathroom so I suspect she knew that I was bulimic. Every night she’d sit down to a Findus Family pack of lasagna for 4 people and head off to bed. I’d eat a bowl of soup and run around the block for 2 hours.

I honestly believe that Fat Acceptance will help reduce or stop the overeating binges. Why? Because once you stop fighting yourself, stop hating yourself for failing to achieve something that 95% of other dieters cannot achieve (ie, keep the weight OFF) you will be able to grow to love your body and explore and appreciate all the amazing things it can do for you when you treat it right; with love, respect and nourishing food.

I just cannot comprehend how gastric bypass or gastric banding can offer a long term solution if you are not prepared to address the issues the are causing you to binge to that point.

And if you aren’t a binge-eater and still fat what good is this surgery going to do for you? Really, has anyone addressed that issue? It means that you undergo the surgery and end up losing a little, as my friend girl #1 did, due to the constant vomiting, when you return to your normal eating pattern (she never ate very much at all) the weight goes back on. $15,000 to lose and regain 20kilos seems ridiculous.

Anyway, that’s my 2 cents. And Nick, I’m very glad you posted this. It’s good to have this discussion out there in the Fat-o-sphere because so many of us fatties/death fatties have this pushed at us like it’s going to cure everything.

Many of the AoF posters are not seasoned FA people. I'm not sure Nick even knew there was an awareness week happening.

This blog is about a collection of experiences by everyday fat people, not screeds from people in academia.

I'm in the unenviable position of personally knowing 4 woman who have had gastric banding operations, and I tried to talk 2 of them out of it, the other 2 woman didn't tell me until way after their operations.

Why did I try to talk them out it? Well, none of them seemed to want to address the fact that this was a very dangerous operation. They seemed to believe that they would breeze through it and end up size 8-10 and all their problems would be over.

To be ultra-blunt when you binge-eat several times a day, every day, you have mental-health issues. I would say the same about people who binge-drink or who shop every day. It's all about trying to fill a hole in your soul (not used here in a religious sense). I have a friend (size who is a recovering bulimic; she didn't get treatment at the time and is now in personal debt (on credit cards) to the tune of $80,000. She replaced her binge-eating with binge-shopping.

I know plenty of plus-sized people who don't binge-eat so I'm NOT saying that all or event most fatties over-eat, but these 4 women were binge eaters and rather than go down the therapy route they truly believed that getting this operation would change their lives.

So what has happened to these girls?

Well, girl #1 lost 20 kilos and then gained it all back. She is at the same size as when she had the operation.

Girl #2 lost 110 kilos and has gained back 12 kilos. She has $100,000 personal debt on credit cards and a $200,000 mortgage.

Girl #3 lost 25 kilos and has gained back 15 kilos, less than 6 months after the operation.

Girl #4 has lost 35 kilos and kept it off for a year. She hasn't had sex with her partner since the operation. She has also become extremely judgmental over other people's portion sizes (this has freaked me out more than a little)

I understand that sometimes desperate people do desperate things, but to attempt something so dangerous before exhausting other options (such as therapy combined with Fat Acceptance work) seems to me to be completely irresponsible.

The “therapy” that is required before this operation is very light-on. 2 sessions with a counselor recommend by the surgeon.

Not for me, and I hope, not for anymore of my friends.

So people in academia aren't “everyday fat people”? And I'm assuming you don't mean to suggest that academics necessarily speak in “screeds” while “everyday” people somehow are more magically reasonable than that?

Learning an important lesson. Never walk away from something. I'd posted it, so I should stand by my reasons for doing so.

The apology wasn't needed as I'm like everyone else; prone to mistakes, always learning and I'm taking stuff away from this debate that I wouldn't have otherwise gotten.

Dear nick,

Please don't post things I disagree with.

thanks,
rest of fatosphere

Are you sure about that? Are you sure people aren't just supposed to obey kate harding?

Check your sources and get back to me on this.

No, it's just those in academia tend to be arrogant and huffy towards those who don't share their viewpoints.

Oh, and I was not one bit offended by the post. I want to hear the life experiences of others, even if they don't “jive” with my FA philosophy. I don't assume my beliefs should be the truths of the Earth.

I can still see your other post, with your story of your friends who've had surgery. Is that the one?

I didn't think it was terse. It was a good message to hear. As is everyone elses.

I don't really understand a lot of the negativity going on in the comments. Just because we accept our fat doesn't mean we can't accept that other people make other choices about their own. It's fair that their voices are heard too, and in our communities. None of this registers, for me, as “anti-fat.” The woman telling the story is, at 250 pounds, still fat (although she may or may not stay that way.) This isn't some overnight success story where she turned into a pretty pretty princess as a result of weight loss surgery or something, as many of the advertisements would have you believe. It's totally fair to have a relatively neutral, somewhat positive view of weight loss surgery. As the person telling the story said, she's not telling anyone else they need it. Anyway, I would like to see the size acceptance community as a whole welcoming a variety of different people with different perspectives– it will help us grow. And this is coming form someone who would never even think twice about weight loss surgery or a diet (not for me, thanks!) Nice post, Nick.

It was very upsetting to me to read this in the Fatosphere news feed, a place i usually consider safe and fat-accepting.

Her post is respectful but it fuels – HEAVILY – the Fantasy Of Being Thin, and I find its inclusion problematic, disappointing, and somehow disrespectful. thanks for listening.

Good! I see no reason why this post should be taken down and I'm glad you left it up.

Thank you for providing some balance to the issue. This was the whole idea – to get people talking about this in a balanced way and looking at it from both sides.

Showing people to accept themselves and to accept others regardless of what they have been through should be our ultimate goal.

Hello again

There was a 2nd post between 8:24am & 10:37am but it vanished. I think the fault was at my end.

It was just a further re-enforcement of my belief that you are doing a good thing by getting this out to the fat-o-sphere for discussion.

I think these surgeries and others should be discussed without fear of what your response will evoke in others. I'm passionate about a lot of things and sometimes I type without considering that I'll tread on the toes of people who are passionately opposed to my views.

Losing weight is ridiculously hard work (and ultimately pointless work) for many off us, and yet many people genuinely believe that being slim is the only way to live a valid life.

I'm both angry and very sad about that but it's impossible to please everyone. But more than anything I'm annoyed because society views fat people with eating disorders with scorn and hatred but anorexics and slim people with other eating disorders are viewed with sympathy and in some instances, admiration (Miranda Kerr for example, who has the body of a 10 year old boy for gods sake and we hold her up as a great ideal beauty)

I don't want to get into skinny bashing here, but I do want to bash the attitude that says being slim is the only way to live happily.

Keep posting Nick, you have as much right as anyone to speak on this topic.

Could you possibly put a note at the top of this, similar to the post below yours, that warns that it might triggering due to diet/weight loss talk?

I personally can't see the need. I think the post title warns you that we are talking about weight loss.

Or would this be ok if it was a story about surgery that went horribly wrong?

I just don't know what adding a warning would achieve above what the title portrays.

So people who have had weight loss surgery and are still overweight shouldn't be part of the fat-o-sphere?

I think this sums up one of the main messages of this entire post.

“I'm still losing weight but the more time I spend with the Size Acceptance community the less I care about the number on the scale and the more I just want to go out & do things.”

If you feel that you aren't a worthwhile human being because you are fat, then not reading this still isn't going to help. That's a battle that has to be fought at won. You can't stop seeing thing that tell you that fat is not ok. You have to reconcile with yourself that “Hey, they can say that. I believe differently and love myself just the way I am.”

No one else can do that for you.

I added the warning, since I don't see the harm.

There is NO sign at the beginning of the Fat Acceptance ride that states one must be *this* feminist to ride. Your comments reek of intellectual snobbery – Axis of Fat bloggers have NEVER claimed to be writing to academic standards. We are fat bloggers on the internet trying to find a place.

Hey I just learnt how to block people! WOO CRAZY WITH POWER. If you wanted to help any of our bloggers understand exactly where you are, and give us a hand up, you'd post links and actually yannow, share and care.

~~We're all in this together~~

It's pretty triggering since it reads a lot like a pro-WLS advertisement. I couldn't even read it all the way through the first time I came across it. Thank you for adding the warning, because it really is necessary. That said, once you warn people that the post is triggering, they are reading at their own risk. Since you've asked for discussion, I wanted to actually discuss the article's effect on me and possibly why some people are reacting very negatively to it.

My biggest concern is that this is an interview with someone less than a year out from WLS. I think another year would show whether she is one of the lucky ones who got away with WLS without major complications and side-effects, or whether she is just not to the really bad part yet. Five years will show whether she is one of the statistical outliers who doesn't gain all the weight back PLUS spend the rest of their lives dealing with malnutrition.

The pro vs con dieting/WLS split is one of the major divides in the FA movement (even bigger than Feminism, at least until recently!). It is an extremely touchy topic. I'm one of those people who equate deliberate weight loss to self-destructive activities like smoking or binge drinking as far as your health is concerned. I see WLS as choosing to amputate or mutilate a perfectly healthy, necessary set of organs for purely cosmetic purposes. I see it pushed by doctors who don't care if it kills people as long as it pads their bottom line.

The problem is that maintaining this against the overwhelming media and medical endorsement is a really tough, uphill battle. Much like maintaining your self esteem against so many global industries dependent on making you hate yourself.

That said, the reason why you're getting an angry, negative response is that quite a few people in FA would see this as the equivelent to posting an interview with someone who's very happy with their decision to smoke three packs a day. They've only been doing it for a few months but they haven't had any side effects. They're much less stressed because the nicotine calms them down a lot. Etc.

Behind a lot of the anger as well is the idea that you cannot simultaneously accept your body while you're working to change it. That means that you can only go so far in body acceptance before you really have to accept it as it is, not how it would be after dieting. Then again, that acceptance is a journey, and not everyone on it will reach the same destination. Even two people who have been in FA a long time will disagree strongly on some points.

Anyway, just wanted to emphasize that Doreen has the absolute right to be in charge of her own body, regardless of how I or anyone feels about her decision or how we would decide for ourselves in her situation.

Also, You have the absolute right to post whatever you want on your own blog without the need to support trolls (TomBrokaw, by the way, is one of the fatosphere's most fondly untolerated trolls, who seems to have spent the last several years of his life reading the fatosphere and waiting for a new blogger to show up that hasn't banned his IP yet. You might want to use your newfound blogger superpowers to do so now.)

But thanks for posting the trigger warning anyway.

I don't intend this to be critical, but I'm not following the logic in the second paragraph. Are you saying you made a mistake, but since everyone does that there is no need to apologize? Because it's a learning experience?

I'm sure that she is happy right now, it's the “honeymoon” period where she's losing weight. Within three years the weight will be back, along with problems from lack of nutrients. I'm glad she is learning about size acceptance because it will make it easier for her when that happens.

As this debate has raged on, I've decided this wasn't a mistake. Initially that was my though, but now I'm happy to have posted this and so see no reason to apologise.

Nick, I am glad you posted this. I guess I am a bit of an outsider to the fatosphere – I was an overweight teenager but now take a type of medication that has taken away my appetite almost completely (which is horrible, considering how much I adore food) and makes me teeter between fine and unhealthily scrawny. The reactions are varied – “So jealous! Can I have some of your meds?” to “Are you okay? You're totally anorexic” to “Bitch, you know it's okay to eat chocolate cake once in a while”, but contrary to what a lot of FA people would believe (or want to admit, maybe), despite not being fat I still have to deal with other people thinking it's okay to make comments and judgments about my weight.

My mother is fat. Fact. My siblings and I have always had a very unemotional way of looking at it, even since when we were little; once upon a time, she'd ask us things like “do I look fat in this?” and we would say “well, yes” – none of this “No Mum, you look really thin!” because it's just stupid. If you are fat, there is no magical outfit that will make you look not fat. But in our house, there was never the automatic assumption that looking fat = looking bad. Mum is now in her 50s, fat, fierce and trendier than ever – she is an artist and also works in a fashion boutique, and has a personal sense of style to put most people (regardless of size) to shame. I am so proud of her – even just looking at her sisters and how being fat is an everyday struggle for them that prevents them from doing things or feeling happy.. I'm glad my Mum can be fat AND happy.

However, she diets. Some of her reasons are health-related (iron-rich food for anemia, trying not to eat too much salt for high blood pressure, avoiding alcohol and overly spicy food because they exacerbate her rosacea, etc). But most of the time, she avoids overly processed foods and tries to eat lots of fruits, vegetables, fish, meat, grains and things not because she's on some weight loss mission, but because they make HER feel better. She feels less tired and run down when eating more nutrient rich food, and has commented to me that in taking time to think about, prepare, and be more aware about what she is actually eating, she enjoys it more. She doesn't know whether or not she's losing or gaining weight, or really care; she does notice that when she is a bit more hardcore about her 'diet' that she has more energy and generally feels 'better'. Yes, she still eats cake if she wants it.. I am pretty sure that she and I would actually go insane if we couldn't eat cake.

I'm not trying to wave a “eat healthily like my Mum and you'll never feel internal conflict again!” banner or pretend there is a solution for everybody (or that being fat even needs a 'solution' in the first place), because everybody has to find their own way to feeling happy. The point is that this way of eating suits my Mum, it's food that she enjoys anyway and makes her feel happy and physically 'better'. She doesn't need to 'diet' because society is telling her to or because she can't accept her body and be proud of it. It's just her choice; something positive that she does for herself.

I brought up this example because I read this interview and had a lot of admiration for Doreen's choice to also do something positive for herself. Before somebody misinterprets this as “losing weight is the only good thing a fat person can do for themselves”, Doreen made a choice that has ultimately led to her being happier, getting out there and doing more things – surely this is a good thing? Regardless to your size, there are lots of paths towards self acceptance and feeling happy in your own skin. I didn't feel like this was a testimonial or an blindly optimistic advertisement – it was just the other side of the coin. Having something like gastric banding surgery would be a deeply personal choice with a lot of different factors to consider, and Doreen certainly didn't take it lightly. This interview is helpful and insightful – so Nick, I applaud you for giving your readers a balanced view – a lot of other sites and people are very eager to peddle only what furthers their agenda.

It makes me sad and angry that some people are so quick to be snarky and downright nasty, just because Doreen's (and many other people) choices doesn't gel with their very arbitrary distinctions between good and bad. Something very worrying about the FA community (as exhibited by some of the extremely negative comments here) is the hypocrisy that undermines the basic ideals it all stands for. It's not always a clear cut case of gastric band surgery/diets/whatever = bad – pardon the pun, but fat acceptance and being able to love yourself for who you are is not one size fits all. In a community that promotes, why is there so little acceptance of each other?

your friends sound like they were not honest to their doctors about why they wanted the surgery or themselves either. Its certainly not a good idea for any one with a disorder of any type nor is it a miracle cure its bloody hard work and simply a tool to help you reach a goal. the first 10-20kgs can drop quite fast but as with any “diet” a healthy eating plan and regular exercise is also needed. And a healthy mind