Natalie

I’m fat without the ph, but you can determine my acidity baby.

Thu, 23/07/2009 - 7:39pm | by

Tiara linked me to a post on Agent Lover wherein the heroine of the piece thought she’d slap the wrist of a fellow blogger who included her pictures in a “Fat Love Friday” post without permission. Mars from Chicken Dinner Candybar apologised and offered to remove the photos, but this offer was not taken up. I’ll blog about this since Marie from Agent Lover thought it was fair enough to bring into the public sphere, and because I have a few important issues to raise. Like my fist, as I shake it into the sky.

Sort your shit out privately.

It’s not “brave” to have a whinge about this when you’ve already dealt with the author of the “offending” post. What’s your intention? Publically shaming Chicken Dinner Candybar by directing your readership over there isn’t very mature. Your large readership could now very well have a negative bias towards the “offending” blogger and a strengthened bias against the notion of fatness. That shit is for Livejournal, dear Maude!

That isn’t the way to spread body acceptance.

I’m not sure body acceptance even registers as an issue for Agent Lover, because she admits that “fat” is a negative word. The fat-o-sphere has been around the internet for a few years, plus yannow, we’re fat so we’re super visible! As a blogger, Marie must have some powerful blinders on. The fat-o-sphere doesn’t just encompass fat people either – there’s a range of body types blogging about the topic and these authors self identify as “fat allies”, “inbetweenies”, “deathfatties” and other titles using fat with and without the ph.

Fat isn’t a pejorative to a lot of people.

“No matter how many times anyone tries to empower the word, the word fat ain’t going to be thought of as positive unless it’s spelled with a PH, ok?”

I guess I missed that memo. A lot of us did. The tricky thing about saying “never” is that one day you’re going to have to eat your hat. Chicken Dinner Candybar obviously considers fat to be a positive word, she blogs about it at least every Friday! The thing Marie forgot to take into consideration was context. If my pictures were posted all over a site that obviously talked disparagingly about fat, I would not only email them but spread my wrath throughout the bloggerverse. That’s not what happened here. While Marie has every right to be upset, she does not have the right to decree that other people can’t ever empower fatness.

Personally, I hate it when people use euphemisms for fat. Fluffy, BBW, curvaceous – they all make me cringe. I’m fat, I’m empowered and I’m doing pretty well, thanks very much!

You put your picture on the internet.

You have very little control over where it goes from there, or what people associate with your body. In this case it well-intentioned but poorly received. It could have been way worse. I post my photos on FUCKYEAHDEATHFATTIES and I’ve seen some very nasty comments as people reblog my photos. But you know what? I suck it up, because I know I’m fucking fancy!

You don’t just see a fat person’s style, you see their body too.

Don’t negate it, and don’t pretend it doesn’t exist. If style was the most visible thing about people, many of us would be walking down catwalks. The truth is that body shape is a HUGE FACTOR and denying that it’s a political battlefield is tantamount to plugging your head in the sand and showing everyone your pantaloons.

Whether one self identifies as fat or not, one does not have the right to declare unilaterally that fat is a negative word for absolutely every body. We’ve been conditioned to accept certain words (and indeed body types!) as positive or negative, and it’s really important to understand that human thoughts and prejudices aren’t set in stone. We can gradually accept a notion that challenges our conditioning by being open and asking questions and participating – not by digging into the ground, crying offense and refusing to grow.

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  • http://www.meetmeatmikes.com/ pip

    I guess it all comes down to intent, huh? I think there was no malice meant here by anyone, actually.

    But I think that we can't assume that everyone is okay with the word 'fat' just because the 'Fat Friday' writer is.

    I mean, I call my partner 'arse-crack' sometimes, as a term of endearment – but I wouldn't go having 'Arse-Crack Sunday' on my blog… With photos of other people I don't know, but whom I find endearing…. They might not share my terminology.

    I think we need to be careful, I guess, of hurting other people's feelings. Especially people we don't even know, just for the sake of a blog post, however celebratory.

    And I think maybe just celebrate beauty and style and smarts – regardless of shape, colour etc? And remember to be nice to other girls and try to understand them. Usually they are just a bit flawed and human and mistakey like me.

  • nitrojane

    WOOHHHHH!

  • http://www.definatalie.com definatalie

    Oh I'm definitely not justifying posting of people's images without permission, I think it's always polite to ask if it's okay and especially in this context. There are a few “fat girl rah rah” type tumblrs that post photos of people without permission, and that doesn't sit quite so nicely with me which is why I decided to make FUCKYEAHDEATHFATTIES submission based, so people who self identify and are comfortable with the title can put forward their favourite photos.

    I wanted to address the negative approach to bodies that so many people have, and I am much more staunch about it than a lot of people because I feel quite comfortable taking the hard line.

    I think it's important to accept we are flawed and mistakey, I really like that phrase :P

  • http://blog.themerchgirl.net Tiara the Merch Girl

    This is why I keep sending such links to you – because I know you'd have a much better argument than anything I can ever come up with XD

  • http://www.dendoo.wordpress.com/ dendoo

    i just have to say that some people do take offense to being called “fat”. my sister is a lil chubbs and she doesn't like hearing the “f word” being used to describe her. call her big girl, chubbs, heavy boo but if you bust a fat she's really hurt. then there are some people who LOOOOOVE being called fat. it's who they are and who they be all day and every day. it's them.

    now i don't think they had to go on mega attack mode with that other blogger since she did apologize and all that but i do think having an argumento…well it just ain't chill babes..it just ain't chill. let's squash the beef cause we are all female and we have to support each other with the blogging and our thoughts and ideeears.

    much love, dendoo // a faboulously skinny ain't gats no booty black girl who supports all

  • http://blog.themerchgirl.net Tiara the Merch Girl

    I can understand being hurt because of past history. But there's that, and there's totally overreacting and demonizing the poor girl. Also Marie and her supporters were claiming that -no one- would ever want to be called fat for any reason, or call themselves fat, which is obviously a fallacy (as Natalie points out here).

    Context is important. I was called “Bangla” as a pejorative growing up – “you dirty Bangla get out of this country”. But “Joy Bangla” was also the rallying cry for Bangladesh's independence. The context made all the difference – and in this case it was very obvious that Mars defined “fat” as a positive term. There's no point having an argument when you won't even agree on the definitions – it just becomes Attack of the Strawmen. Your definition isn't the world's definition – that goes BOTH ways. By reacting the way she did, instead of carefully considering the word “fat” and what Mars was trying to say, she is ENCOURAGING the use of it as an insult, which further demonises fat people.

    Mars has been taking this rather well, considering the viciousness Marie and her commentors are showing to her on both blogs. People are pointing out comments and calling Mars a “real Mother Theresa!” as an insult! And neither Marie nor any of her supporters are saying “hey, that isn't cool, chill out a bit.”. What could have been just a quickly-sorted misunderstanding became a way to attack someone who may not have had enough syncophants to back her up.

  • Jean

    I seriously wanted to kill myself reading the loooong comment thread on Marie's post, so thank you so much for bringing a much needed reality check. Both Marie and Mars could have handled it better, but all the “why do we even need to single out non-skinny bloggers, isn't that STYLE DISCRIMINATION??” comments were driving me crazy. Look, people, when you start seeing anyone over a size 4 on Sartorialist, then maybe we can talk. Until then, community-building posts like “Fat Love Friday” are absolutely a valid and necessary way to increase visibility for ALL BODY TYPES.

  • Guest

    I totally agree with you overall, but my main problem is the way people are harping on Agent Lover for bringing up her discomfort. Don’t get me wrong, I agree she should have done it privately and mediated her commentators better. But I also think that if someone treats you a way you’re not happy with, then you should say something. Hopefully that person will then apologize and both parties can move on (which Marie did – but the commentators didn’t).

    I also don’t think the way to reclaim the word “fat” is by calling other people fat. It’s about being proud to call yourself fat. That’s how you de-stigmatize a label. (A perfect example is the c-word. I may think there’s nothing wrong with the word “c-nt,” but that doesn’t mean I should go around calling people that willy nilly.)

  • http://www.livinginames.wordpress.com/ Kayla

    This “Agent Lover” chick? Embodies why the rest of the world doesn't taking blogging seriously.

  • Jen

    I have to tell you, I wouldn't have been pleased about that either and I would have said both in private and in the comments. I don't think she over-reacted.